Poor recruiting classes at USC

maxduck · Post by **maxduck** » Mon Oct 01, 2012 9:27 am

According to LK they just need better recruits.

"I think that's the result of us not nailing recruiting over the last five years and players getting away in this conference," Kiffin said.

http://www.dailynews.com/ci_21669641/us ... rss_viewed

woundedknees · Post by **woundedknees** » Mon Oct 01, 2012 12:39 pm

As my Dad used to say: "Cry Me Hand Full!"

Braveheart · Post by **Braveheart** » Mon Oct 01, 2012 1:10 pm

Said they (staff) need to recruit better. They let a few big ones slip the last few years, and let some good ones go due to scholly restrictions. Kiff didn't say they need better recruits, just not to get out-worked down the stretch by other programs.

maxduck · Post by **maxduck** » Mon Oct 01, 2012 1:45 pm

Braveheart wrote:Said they (staff) need to recruit better. They let a few big ones slip the last few years, and let some good ones go due to scholly restrictions. Kiff didn't say they need better recruits, just not to get out-worked down the stretch by other programs.

I'm sorry but this post just doesn't make sense, certainly not up to your usual standards. They don't need to sign better recruits but they need to recruit better?

woundedknees · Post by **woundedknees** » Mon Oct 01, 2012 1:55 pm

They definitely need to recruit to needs, rather than just for the "flash effect" such as taking the top 3 at one position, and not recruiting at another... Balance does help.

Of course, if one is unable to coach well enough to figure how to obtain the most bang for the buck out of the riches at hand, it is a bogus investment.

Braveheart · Post by **Braveheart** » Mon Oct 01, 2012 5:04 pm

maxduck wrote:
Braveheart wrote:Said they (staff) need to recruit better. They let a few big ones slip the last few years, and let some good ones go due to scholly restrictions. Kiff didn't say they need better recruits, just not to get out-worked down the stretch by other programs.
I'm sorry but this post just doesn't make sense, certainly not up to your usual standards. They don't need to sign better recruits but they need to recruit better?

What I'm trying to get across is that Kiff isn't complaining about the overall level of recruits they bring in. He's not saying they need better recruits. He's talking about he and the staff doing a better job recruiting (mainly closing). USC has lost some big-time recruits in the last couple of years.

Let's start with the class of 2011, with a recruit we're all familiar with....

De'Anthony Thomas, He was considered a USC lean until the Army All-American game. He was emotional during his AAA introduction ceremony, and stated that it was a dream come true to play in the game. He also stated his other dream was winning the Heisman. While most fans liked to see our local legend passionate about the game and humble, there were a few of us that raised an eyebrow when he started talking about how much he wanted to win the Heisman. Even though Kiff reiterated multiple times that De'Anthony would play at any position he wanted, most fans assumed he'd be a CB (eventually if not immediately) due to the fact that he camped (exclusively for the most part) at CB all spring/summer after talking to Monte Kiffin about his future projection to the next level. De'Anthony playing CB during the AAA game, and playing it well relieved some folks that he still was looking forward to playing the position at USC. While USC was doing it's usual attempts to flip some studs that were on the fence before NSD arrives, UO was doing the same thing. De'Anthony was thought to be all but locked up getting closer to NSD by the USC staff, so they focused their recruiting efforts elsewhere. Meanwhile UO's persistence in recruiting De'Anthony his senior year paid off and they got a secret/surprise visit that would eventually be the dagger to USC's recruiting hopes. When Kiff found out about the visit, I'm sure this played in his mind http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OGp9P6QvMjY.

USC got out-recruited, and Kiff is still bitter about it. It's one of the main reasons Kiffin is cool with commits taking their visits but USC gets the last one. In USC's defense, De'Anthony was smart enough to see that UO would be the best fit for his skill-set and goals. Even with that said, it's a loss. If you've read Meat Market By Bruce Feldman (great book for any recruitnik), you'll see that somebody like Ed Ogeron lives for recruiting, and he doesn't like losing out on recruits and that it's personal for him. I'm sure Lane Kiffin or any elite recruiter feels somewhat similar (just not as crazy). Without giving a write-up for each player, Kyle Murphy & Andrus Peat were big misses last NSD. In fact, the USC staff thought they were coming only to find out that they were played (both were solid to Stanford, and for some time before NSD). It's another example of being out-recruited. USC almost let stud freshman Leonard Williams choose UF after being a USC lean heading into NSD. A last minute call from Ed Orgeron delayed Williams announcement and he would end up choosing USC.

Recruiting better could also mean evaluating talent better. Sure USC rakes in the stars, but not every ballyhooed HS all-american pans out for various reasons. Some kids are maxed out at the HS level, don't have the talent, too raw, lack of football IQ, overrated measurables, lack of instincts, soft, bad character, dumb, lack of heart, injury prone, lazy, etc.... It's the coaches job to see some of these traits before signing em, and they don't always get it right. Coaching plays a big part of it (don't get it twisted), but some recruit's flaws outweigh coaching. Kids that fit what a coach is trying to do is just about as important as raw talent. Right now there isn't a lot of room for error at USC. Gone are the days of Pete Carroll's "defensive recruiting" where USC could stockpile recruits in order to keep them away from the rest of the conference. USC has to hit on close to all of their recruits, can't take as many projects, or glue guys. In other words, USC has to recruit better.

That's basically what i got out of the article.

maxduck · Post by **maxduck** » Mon Oct 01, 2012 6:23 pm

Braveheart wrote:What I'm trying to get across is that Kiff isn't complaining about the overall level of recruits they bring in. He's not saying they need better recruits. He's talking about he and the staff doing a better job recruiting (mainly closing). USC has lost some big-time recruits in the last couple of years.

Let's start with the class of 2011, with a recruit we're all familiar with....

De'Anthony Thomas, He was considered a USC lean until the Army All-American game. He was emotional during his AAA introduction ceremony, and stated that it was a dream come true to play in the game. He also stated his other dream was winning the Heisman. While most fans liked to see our local legend passionate about the game and humble, there were a few of us that raised an eyebrow when he started talking about how much he wanted to win the Heisman. Even though Kiff reiterated multiple times that De'Anthony would play at any position he wanted, most fans assumed he'd be a CB (eventually if not immediately) due to the fact that he camped (exclusively for the most part) at CB all spring/summer after talking to Monte Kiffin about his future projection to the next level. De'Anthony playing CB during the AAA game, and playing it well relieved some folks that he still was looking forward to playing the position at USC. While USC was doing it's usual attempts to flip some studs that were on the fence before NSD arrives, UO was doing the same thing. De'Anthony was thought to be all but locked up getting closer to NSD by the USC staff, so they focused their recruiting efforts elsewhere. Meanwhile UO's persistence in recruiting De'Anthony his senior year paid off and they got a secret/surprise visit that would eventually be the dagger to USC's recruiting hopes. When Kiff found out about the visit, I'm sure this played in his mind http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OGp9P6QvMjY.

USC got out-recruited, and Kiff is still bitter about it. It's one of the main reasons Kiffin is cool with commits taking their visits but USC gets the last one. In USC's defense, De'Anthony was smart enough to see that UO would be the best fit for his skill-set and goals. Even with that said, it's a loss. If you've read Meat Market By Bruce Feldman (great book for any recruitnik), you'll see that somebody like Ed Ogeron lives for recruiting, and he doesn't like losing out on recruits and that it's personal for him. I'm sure Lane Kiffin or any elite recruiter feels somewhat similar (just not as crazy). Without giving a write-up for each player, Kyle Murphy & Andrus Peat were big misses last NSD. In fact, the USC staff thought they were coming only to find out that they were played (both were solid to Stanford, and for some time before NSD). It's another example of being out-recruited. USC almost let stud freshman Leonard Williams choose UF after being a USC lean heading into NSD. A last minute call from Ed Orgeron delayed Williams announcement and he would end up choosing USC.

Recruiting better could also mean evaluating talent better. Sure USC rakes in the stars, but not every ballyhooed HS all-american pans out for various reasons. Some kids are maxed out at the HS level, don't have the talent, too raw, lack of football IQ, overrated measurables, lack of instincts, soft, bad character, dumb, lack of heart, injury prone, lazy, etc.... It's the coaches job to see some of these traits before signing em, and they don't always get it right. Coaching plays a big part of it (don't get it twisted), but some recruit's flaws outweigh coaching. Kids that fit what a coach is trying to do is just about as important as raw talent. Right now there isn't a lot of room for error at USC. Gone are the days of Pete Carroll's "defensive recruiting" where USC could stockpile recruits in order to keep them away from the rest of the conference. USC has to hit on close to all of their recruits, can't take as many projects, or glue guys. In other words, USC has to recruit better.

That's basically what i got out of the article.

Seriously, that interpretation of the comments could apply to virtually every D-1 coach in the country. They all lose recruits late in the cycle, they all have recruits that don't live up to expectations. What most of them don't do is publicly complain.

Braveheart · Post by **Braveheart** » Mon Oct 01, 2012 8:22 pm

maxduck wrote:
Braveheart wrote:What I'm trying to get across is that Kiff isn't complaining about the overall level of recruits they bring in. He's not saying they need better recruits. He's talking about he and the staff doing a better job recruiting (mainly closing). USC has lost some big-time recruits in the last couple of years.

Let's start with the class of 2011, with a recruit we're all familiar with....

De'Anthony Thomas, He was considered a USC lean until the Army All-American game. He was emotional during his AAA introduction ceremony, and stated that it was a dream come true to play in the game. He also stated his other dream was winning the Heisman. While most fans liked to see our local legend passionate about the game and humble, there were a few of us that raised an eyebrow when he started talking about how much he wanted to win the Heisman. Even though Kiff reiterated multiple times that De'Anthony would play at any position he wanted, most fans assumed he'd be a CB (eventually if not immediately) due to the fact that he camped (exclusively for the most part) at CB all spring/summer after talking to Monte Kiffin about his future projection to the next level. De'Anthony playing CB during the AAA game, and playing it well relieved some folks that he still was looking forward to playing the position at USC. While USC was doing it's usual attempts to flip some studs that were on the fence before NSD arrives, UO was doing the same thing. De'Anthony was thought to be all but locked up getting closer to NSD by the USC staff, so they focused their recruiting efforts elsewhere. Meanwhile UO's persistence in recruiting De'Anthony his senior year paid off and they got a secret/surprise visit that would eventually be the dagger to USC's recruiting hopes. When Kiff found out about the visit, I'm sure this played in his mind http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OGp9P6QvMjY.

USC got out-recruited, and Kiff is still bitter about it. It's one of the main reasons Kiffin is cool with commits taking their visits but USC gets the last one. In USC's defense, De'Anthony was smart enough to see that UO would be the best fit for his skill-set and goals. Even with that said, it's a loss. If you've read Meat Market By Bruce Feldman (great book for any recruitnik), you'll see that somebody like Ed Ogeron lives for recruiting, and he doesn't like losing out on recruits and that it's personal for him. I'm sure Lane Kiffin or any elite recruiter feels somewhat similar (just not as crazy). Without giving a write-up for each player, Kyle Murphy & Andrus Peat were big misses last NSD. In fact, the USC staff thought they were coming only to find out that they were played (both were solid to Stanford, and for some time before NSD). It's another example of being out-recruited. USC almost let stud freshman Leonard Williams choose UF after being a USC lean heading into NSD. A last minute call from Ed Orgeron delayed Williams announcement and he would end up choosing USC.

Recruiting better could also mean evaluating talent better. Sure USC rakes in the stars, but not every ballyhooed HS all-american pans out for various reasons. Some kids are maxed out at the HS level, don't have the talent, too raw, lack of football IQ, overrated measurables, lack of instincts, soft, bad character, dumb, lack of heart, injury prone, lazy, etc.... It's the coaches job to see some of these traits before signing em, and they don't always get it right. Coaching plays a big part of it (don't get it twisted), but some recruit's flaws outweigh coaching. Kids that fit what a coach is trying to do is just about as important as raw talent. Right now there isn't a lot of room for error at USC. Gone are the days of Pete Carroll's "defensive recruiting" where USC could stockpile recruits in order to keep them away from the rest of the conference. USC has to hit on close to all of their recruits, can't take as many projects, or glue guys. In other words, USC has to recruit better.

That's basically what i got out of the article.

Seriously, that interpretation of the comments could apply to virtually every D-1 coach in the country. They all lose recruits late in the cycle, they all have recruits that don't live up to expectations. What most of them don't do is publicly complain.

Well, that's just what he did.

What is/was your point?

UofDuck · Post by **UofDuck** » Tue Oct 02, 2012 6:11 am

My opinion: I suspect that the LK apologists (really not aiming at our buddy herewith - I respect him) who attempt to explain away Kiff's flubs by interjecting their biased views of what they "think" Kiff really meant, will shortly be grabbing a pitch fork and torch and leading the march up to Castle Kiffinstein. I think they lose one or two more this year and that just won't do any longer.

PS, we are all bias, but some of us tend to be correct in our bias

Braveheart · Post by **Braveheart** » Tue Oct 02, 2012 12:44 pm

"I think that's the result of us not nailing recruiting over the last five years and players getting away in this conference,"

My question is, what do ya'll take from this quote? I believe it matches what I previously said, but I'm trying to understand what the rest of you are getting at. From what I understand, It's funny that Kiff would mention USC needing to recruit better despite the fact that USC is a perennial top 10 team when it comes to recruiting. Am I missing something?

Duck07 · Post by **Duck07** » Tue Oct 02, 2012 1:25 pm

Braveheart wrote:"I think that's the result of us not nailing recruiting over the last five years and players getting away in this conference,"

My question is, what do ya'll take from this quote? I believe it matches what I previously said, but I'm trying to understand what the rest of you are getting at. From what I understand, It's absurdthat Kiff would mention USC needing to recruit better despite the fact that USC is a perennial top 10 team when it comes to recruiting. Am I missing something?

What is Lame going to whine about next, not having enough tradition? I thought he and his staff have done a tremendous job getting through the sanctions (which I do feel was overboard based on evidence shown) but I'd much rather he just shut up and try to coach rather than make excuses every time something goes wrong.

maxduck · Post by **maxduck** » Tue Oct 02, 2012 1:45 pm

Braveheart wrote:"I think that's the result of us not nailing recruiting over the last five years and players getting away in this conference,"

My question is, what do ya'll take from this quote? I believe it matches what I previously said, but I'm trying to understand what the rest of you are getting at. From what I understand, It's funny that Kiff would mention USC needing to recruit better despite the fact that USC is a perennial top 10 team when it comes to recruiting. Am I missing something?

To me is smacks of immaturity and a sense of entitlement, for example " Once get our numbers back... There was a guy Saturday making plays and we had him here in our camp but we didn't have room for him." .

If I counted correctly Kiffin signed 44 players in the last two recruiting cycles, more than either Stanford or Cal and only one less than UCLA. This isn't Alabama during the '60's when they routinely enrolled players simply to keep them from other programs, quit crying about it.

Braveheart · Post by **Braveheart** » Tue Oct 02, 2012 4:47 pm

Duck07 wrote:
Braveheart wrote:"I think that's the result of us not nailing recruiting over the last five years and players getting away in this conference,"

My question is, what do ya'll take from this quote? I believe it matches what I previously said, but I'm trying to understand what the rest of you are getting at. From what I understand, It's absurdthat Kiff would mention USC needing to recruit better despite the fact that USC is a perennial top 10 team when it comes to recruiting. Am I missing something?
What is Lame going to whine about next, not having enough tradition? I thought he and his staff have done a tremendous job getting through the sanctions (which I do feel was overboard based on evidence shown) but I'd much rather he just shut up and try to coach rather than make excuses every time something goes wrong.

Fair enough, I feel the same.

Kimber45 · Post by **Kimber45** » Tue Oct 02, 2012 6:39 pm

Braveheart wrote:"I think that's the result of us not nailing recruiting over the last five years and players getting away in this conference,"

My question is, what do ya'll take from this quote? I believe it matches what I previously said, but I'm trying to understand what the rest of you are getting at. From what I understand, It's funny that Kiff would mention USC needing to recruit better despite the fact that USC is a perennial top 10 team when it comes to recruiting. Am I missing something?

I think was Coach Kiffin is saying is that the conference has lost commits to other conferences, not that USC has lost commits to other PAC12 teams. At least that is the way I read his remarks.

Then again, Kiffin struggles with big words so who the hell ever knows what he is trying to say.

Braveheart · Post by **Braveheart** » Tue Oct 02, 2012 7:24 pm

Kimber45 wrote:
Braveheart wrote:"I think that's the result of us not nailing recruiting over the last five years and players getting away in this conference,"

My question is, what do ya'll take from this quote? I believe it matches what I previously said, but I'm trying to understand what the rest of you are getting at. From what I understand, It's funny that Kiff would mention USC needing to recruit better despite the fact that USC is a perennial top 10 team when it comes to recruiting. Am I missing something?
I think was Coach Kiffin is saying is that the conference has lost commits to other conferences, not that USC has lost commits to other PAC12 teams. At least that is the way I read his remarks.

Then again, Kiffin struggles with big words so who the hell ever knows what he is trying to say.

Gotta disagree with you Kimber.

"Getting away in this conference"

I don't think he'd complain about studs going out of the PAC, but I'm very sure he would complain if they went to conference rivals...wouldn't you? Imagine seeing Lyerla in Husky purple n gold?